Automata Mastery with Cecilia Schiller

Cecilia Schiller was born into a working-class family, without money for college she became a hairstylist. While viewing a retrospective of the abstract expressionist sculptor and designer, Isamu Noguchi she realized she was going to be an artist. Uncertain of where she fit in the American landscape, she embarked on a seven-year journey working as an artesania making handmade crafts, which she sold on the street. 

After overcoming, poverty, fear, and countless hardships she returned home with two young daughters to raise as a single mother. Cecilia apprenticed with a master woodcarver over the next seven years, learning the engineering and kinetics of automata; through wooden cranks and gears—making wood move. In witnessing her pieces, we are transported into magical scenes that come to life.  Engineering, carving, woodworking, metalsmithing, theater set design, puppeteering, mask carving, and hairstyling—all these skills come into play in her breathtaking work. 

Through her years of dedication, ability to move beyond fear, and the faith to follow her artistic desire,  Cecilia is now an award-winning wood sculptor, recognized for her work with grants from the Minnesota State Arts Board, the Jerome Foundation, and the National Endowment for the Arts. In addition to creating original and custom automata, Cecilia Schiller shares her skills by teaching classes and offering DIY original laser-cut kits at Cranky Heart Automata. It was truly inspirational to learn about Cecilia’s path. We are thrilled to welcome this talented and generous artist to this episode of Intrinsic Drive ®.

 Intrinsic Drive ®  is produced by Ellen Strickler and Phil Wharton and Andrew Hollingworth  is sound editor and engineer.  For more information on this and other episodes visit us at https://www.whartonhealth.com/intrinsicdrive. 

Transcript

Phil Wharton: 0:00

A lifetime of training, practice study, hard work through discipline, some achieve excellence, mastery, fulfillment, self actualization. What can we learn from their beginning discoveries, motivations and falls? How do they dust themselves off and resume their journey? During these interviews, stories and conversations, we reveal their intrinsic drive. Cecilia Schiller was born into a working class family. Without money for college, she became a hairstylist. While viewing a retrospective of the abstract expressionist sculptor and designer Isamu Noguchi she realized she was going to be an artist. Uncertain of where she fit in the American landscape, she embarked on a seven- year journey working as an artistania, making handmade crafts which she sold on the street. After overcoming poverty, fear and countless hardships. She returned home with two young daughters to raise as a single mother. Cecilia apprenticed with a master woodcarver over the next seven years, learning the engineering and kinetics of automata; through wooden cranks and gears-- making wood move. In witnessing her pieces, we are transported into magical scenes that come to life. Engineering, carving, woodworking, metal smithing, theater set design, puppeteering mask, carving, and hairstyling-- all these skills come into play in her breathtaking work. Through her years of dedication, ability to move beyond fear in the face, to follow her artistic desire. Cecilia is now an award winning wood sculptor, recognized for her work with grants from the Minnesota State Arts Board, the Jerome Foundation, and the National Endowment for the Arts. In addition to creating original and custom automata, Cecilia shares her skills by teaching classes, and offering Do It Yourself original laser kits at her Cranky Heart automata store. It was truly inspirational to learn about Cecilia's path. And we are thrilled to welcome this talented and generous artist to this episode of intrinsic drive. Hi, Cecilia. So great to have you with us. And welcome to intrinsic drive. It's such a pleasure to have you on today.

Cecilia Schiller: 2:32

Well, thank you. It's my pleasure to be

Phil Wharton: 2:34

And I wanted to go to your beginning. You know, in here. the show, we have the Genesis In the beginning of your journey, what was the inciting moment for you? Was it working in the theater being a puppeteer? Was it the Balinese masks? Scene set design? What was the inciting moment there? What brought you to that?

Cecilia Schiller: 2:57

Yeah, I think, I think it was like way, way back way before that, before I even realized, you know, all those things, were going to be a part of my life. And I guess early, you know, in my childhood, I grew up in a real working class family. And, you know, to my understanding, college was not in my future. And I became a hairstylist. And from there, I started going to taking just night school because I was kind of curious about things. And, and after about four years of that, I was like, Hey, I, I want to I started working part time and then going to school full time. And then I just went, you know, I'm gonna quit and just go to school only. And so the night that I would, I was we were having a party because I was quitting work. And I went out with some friends, and I had a little too much to drink and stuff. So. So I ended up sleeping over at their house. And the next day, we all got up and we went to the Walker Art Center, which is in Minneapolis, and they happen to have this exhibit called of Isamu Noguchi, the Japanese artist from the, you know, he, I'm not sure when he died, but, you know, his, his work is around the 40s and 50s. And this would have been in the 70s. And it was a retrospective on his work. And, you know, I always thought of art as being something kind of superficial and you know, not I wasn't interested in making art, you know, and I was gonna go into natural resources and study science and, and so anyway, I saw this exhibit in here it was he did park benches he did. He designed landscapes. He designed the you know, theater sets costumes, and it was a little bit of all these things. And I was so taken with it. I just walked around and I walked around and went back through back through. And then I sat on the steps. And I was just transfixed. And my friend came up to me, and he said, it's a want to go. And I said, I'm going to be an artist. And he just laughed. And he said, It's about time, you know, so. And that was pretty much the reaction I got from everybody. It was that, like, I was the only one didn't didn't know, you know, yeah, this is your destiny. Just do it, you know. And so, um, so anyway. Yeah, that was the, I think the big kind of AHA moment for me, and but I didn't, I didn't know what I was going to do. With my work, I had an idea of like, different areas I liked and stuff. And I did go to college, and I majored in art and, and then I came out wasn't exactly sure what I wanted to do. And I also didn't really know how I fit into the American landscape. And the culture, I just felt kind of adrift, like I didn't belong, and, not knowing where you know, or how to find a place to belong. And that led me a couple years later to, to go on a, I guess, a journey. And I went to I went to Latin America, South America, that was the South America. Yeah. So it was, yeah, I was seven years in Latin America, because I went, I went by land. So I went through Mexico, Guatemala, et cetera, et cetera, down the West Coast, over cross to Argentina. And then finally, up to Brazil, where I spent the most time there it was four years. So that was a really, you know, a lot happened in that seven years. And what I can say, you know, kind of the synthesis of it was, I left not knowing where I belonged. And when I came back, I knew I belonged. I didn't, I didn't have to belong in a particular place. I just knew that I belonged. So I became, you know, through through all these trials and tribulations that I, that I endured, I came to a peaceful recognition of who I was, you know,

Phil Wharton: 7:52

Because I know, and we'll get to that in some of the falls, but I know, there was a really difficult moment there in Peru, you know, you were robbed, and you were alone. And that's, you know, that's traumatic.

Cecilia Schiller: 8:04

Yeah.

Phil Wharton: 8:06

Were you were you creating art at the time during this seven year process? Or were you picking up obviously, ideas and, you know, new, experiences what was happening in that in terms of your craft?

Cecilia Schiller: 8:20

Well, I was living really hand to mouth and I was making jewelry and selling it on the street. And so I wasn't, I never felt like I was like, really developing my craft, because it was a very kind of practical thing to do. And although, you know, I did my best to make nice things. It just wasn't it didn't have a place to go, you know, it was very limited. And, and I also had planned that I would end up working with theater. But what I found was that the path I was on with they call it artisanio or the craftsperson, path, and the theater ortheatrical path were parallel paths.

Phil Wharton: 9:08

Yes.

Cecilia Schiller: 9:09

I wasn't really I wasn't really connecting with people, you know, of that, of that ilk. And so I think, you know, I mean, there was several very low moments you named one where I where I got robbed, but and from there, I had, I had very little money I had maybe $50 and but what was worse was that they robbed me of all my merchandise for selling. And so I had no merchandise to sell. So the $50 was not a big deal, because if I could sell things, I could always get some more money. So um, but I continued on and that was, yeah, right. As I was leaving Peru. I went to Argentina and by the time I landed in Cordoba, I had zero, I had zero. And I met. I met a guy along the trip and he said, Oh, you know my sister's in Cordoba maybe you know, you could stay with her. So I remember landing in Cordova. And it was, was probably I don't know, it was midday or two in the afternoon and middle summer, and the whole place was closed up like a drum. You know, this is a second largest city in Argentina. And there was no one absolutely no one on the street. Because it's too hot. Everybody goes indoors, it's siesta, they close.

Phil Wharton: 10:46

That gap after lunch

Cecilia Schiller: 10:48

They go to you know, 11 o'clock to about four o'clock, everything just closed up. And so I was like, Oh, what am I going to do? And I found her address. And I went, it was in a building. And I went and knocked on the door. And I said, Oh, you're your brother gave me your name. And he said, maybe I could stay here a few days or something. And she was like, oh, no. She was really upset. And she's like, well, and it was like a Saturday. And she said, well, you have to be gone by Monday. Now that's it. Monday. I was like, okay, you know, and so from there, I found a, an artist, a craft fair. And I just ended up talking to some folks there. And, and this couple said, you can stay with us for a week we were out in the country, you know, so I stayed with them for a week and came back the next week. And I remember I walked along the road there by the art by the crafts area, the craft sale park, you know, and there was a there was a couple hotels, you know, so I went into one and I said say do you, you know, do you have an economical room, you know, that I could rent and and he looked at me and he said, Honey, we rent these rooms by the hour. I don't think you're like, Oh, no. So I was like, okay, no. And but what? And this was really kind of bizarre, but there was a theatrical guild there. And I don't even remember how I met him. But someone that worked at the guild, he let me stay in the guild office.

Phil Wharton: 12:42

Okay.

Cecilia Schiller: 12:42

And, and I must have stayed there for a week, you know, but you know, it just kind of things evolved. And I managed to find a way to earn some money. I can't even tell you how I did that. But, but in then I rented a room in a house. And, you know, one thing led to another. I met a woman at a fair and, and she said, Oh, we have a house, you can stay there for free. You know. And so, I mean, she met me just like that one time. And the next thing I knew she was she had rent, you know, given her her house to me, it was a house. They were it wasn't quite finished yet. But it was livable. And I lived there for a year out in the country rent free. So yeah, so it just kind of amazing things like that would happen. Yeah. So

Phil Wharton: 13:39

How old were you at this point, let's say, as you're coming into the ascent now, we see you're finding this new way through being so resourceful, you know, and then figuring things out. And then you're you're starting to get into the beginnings of the theater here with this and how old were you at this point in your,

Cecilia Schiller: 14:03

At this point in you know, also, I had already been working in theater before I left the country.

Phil Wharton: 14:11

Okay, so you already

Cecilia Schiller: 14:12

So I had already kind of yeah, I had been working in professional theater, you know, in the backstage and then I'd been doing some puppetry mask work, which, you know, with more puppetry group. And so I wasn't, I wasn't that young. I think I was 31 at this point, you know, so, um, yeah, so I, you know, I attempted to find a way with theatre. It didn't go. It didn't go especially well, you know, a woman that I wanted to work with, that I'd heard about when I was in Peru. It just didn't click we didn't we you know, I took a couple of classes with her, but nothing ever really came of it. I did a little bit of puppetry and stuff there. But I think the big. The big takeaway for me was more life lessons. And, you know, I mean, I've always worked on my craft. I've always developed my craft in any way that I can. I've always I've been the kind of person where I will say, I will scrub the toilet with the toothbrush, if I'll learn something from it, you know, it's like, I'm willing to, you know, to. To work for very little or to, you know, it's like, what, what I get out of an experience is what is important for me. So, yeah, so anyway, it just you know going. I think meeting fear, where fear is, and not backing down, because I didn't have any option to back down, you know, it's like, this is it, you know, you have to figure out your way. There is no other way. You know, it's not like, you can go oh, okay, I'll just take a left instead of right. No, you know, this is it, this is where you were at. Yeah. And, um, and so, you know, finding the kindness of strangers. And, and, uh, you know, just the, the magic of the, you know, when you're in a really vulnerable situation, I think magic happens a lot more than when you're in safe situations. And so serendipitous things would happen, like, I would say, I need X amount of dollars, you know, I'd have a conversation with somebody, I really want to do X, Y, and Z, and I can't because I don't have X amount of dollars. And then I went to the post offices opened open envelope from a friend, and they'd sent me $50. And that was the amount I'd said, you know, it was it was just like mind blowing. So, um, so anyway, I mean, I could go on and on and on about the different experiences that, you know, that kind of brought me around to have faith in life. Yes, faith in my paths, you know, and, and a bit of a fearlessness about how to approach it. Not that I wasn't scared, I was scared a lot. But I still wasn't immobilized with fear.

Phil Wharton: 17:45

And you're facing that fear on a daily basis in such a visceral way.

Cecilia Schiller: 17:50

Yeah

Phil Wharton: 17:50

That idea of adversity sort of introducing you to yourself, I mean, I just love that. Because when you look at your work now, in the automata, I mean, it's just so beautiful. There's such a depth of field, there's so much craft, but there's also so much experience that goes into some of these, especially the commissioned work. And I think that it's, all this experience that, that you've had of having to be in that zone of, I've got to recreate myself every moment.

Cecilia Schiller: 18:22

Yeah and I can

Phil Wharton: 18:25

It's super scary, right? But that toothbrush, I'm going to go in there and I'm going to, you know, Cranky Lady, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to do whatever it takes. And I love that it's, it's such a beautiful. So this feels like it's a huge discovery. I mean, what new things coming to light in this in the show, we asked about the mentors, coaches and teachers and what was revealed as you came out of this incredible experience of having to be self sufficient, having to move through fear, and then coming back home. What were some of the discoveries that you had after that?

Cecilia Schiller: 19:03

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think coming home was really hard. You know, I mean, well, in from, should be said to that, like from Argentina, I went to I went to Brazil. And I had two children that were born in Brazil. Two daughters, and one with an Argentinian that I met, you know, in Argentina during that time, and then we separated later and then my second daughter was, her father is he's Brazilian. So there was many, you know, many similar things there where I, you know, I kind of went down rabbit holes and had to dig my dig my way out again. And in this time, you know, with, a child or with two children, you know.

Phil Wharton: 20:05

So now Yeah,

Cecilia Schiller: 20:08

But also, you know, having children in Brazil, they, it just always felt like I was surrounded with community, you know, people, people were there, people were available. You know, I like to say that, if I was in a rush when I was in Brazil, I would take the long way, because if I took the shortcut, it would take longer, because, you know, I had to go past this house, and they always say, you know, their way to say Hello is, oh sit down, have a cup of coffee, you know. And then you, you know, next thing, you know, you're having dinner with them. And, you know, it takes takes all afternoon. So, so I would go the long way. So I was, that was, that was kind of what it was like, and then when I came back here, you know, stay at home mom, and I was a single mom, you know, that you there just, there wasn't very many people around. And I felt really, really isolated. People also they weren't really interested in my stories, of discovery, you know, it just, it was very, I was kind of unrelatable. And it was very, very hard. In the beginning, you know, so that that was, you know, so. But, uh, but you know, that's when I started woodcarving, that, while he was in Brazil, we'll go back a little bit. I did. I lived in intentional community with a bunch of hippies. And at one point, I kind of built my own primitive house. I didn't build it myself alone, but the community people in the community helped me come together. Have, you know, kind of a barn raising kind of thing.

Phil Wharton: 22:21

What was the material? Was it a wood? Or was it?

Cecilia Schiller: 22:27

Wood, you know, tree, you know, we yeah, it was made out of trees. But, you know, we prepared the wood and all the timbers and everything. And stone. Used stone for the floor and for the foundations.

Phil Wharton: 22:46

Hard work.

Cecilia Schiller: 22:47

And then I was it was going to be a thatched roof, but I never got that far. So it was tarped for, you know, with heavy tarps for most time I was there. But, but anyway, um, oh, so during that time, I, I tried to, like, chisel or, you know, turn turn these, these posts that I had from, from round posts into square posts by my using an axe because I'd seen people do this, you know, yeah. And after about a half an hour, 20 minutes, probably, my hands were numb, and I couldn't feel anything. And I was like, oh, man, no, my hands are too important. I can't, I can't do this. But I kind of vowed that I was going to learn how to carve. And so when I came back to the United States. That was first thing I did was look for a carving teacher. And I found one close by. He was a Greek import. So, um, so that's when I started wood carving was when I first got back and, and studied with him for seven years. So so just like once a week or in that I, I did some work for him too, later on. And, and then you know, so that's kind of where I got my start. And, and, um, you know, being a, being a single mom and being just a mom, you know, it's like I didn't have a lot of time. And at this point, my youngest daughter was just a year old. So, you know, not even a full fledged toddler yet, so but I was really clear I was gonna do this and I, I would carve out little spaces of time, that were my time. And the big thing I think was consistency. Like I always did that, like I did have one day or you know, five hours or four hours or two hours. First, but that was that was my time. And over many years, I was really dedicated that I would focus on my carving then, you know, and and that really paid off really took me to a higher level.

Phil Wharton: 25:15

Yeah, no, that makes sense. And what at this point about your drives? What was urging you forward? What were some of the external and internal forces and motivations during that time? Was it to support your family, you know, your daughters and, and make this into a vocation as well? Was that a big motivator? Or were there others?

Cecilia Schiller: 25:35

Well, I think that was a motivator. But, um, but you know, also on, I think it was something else, because when I did start working, the first job I did, I was I worked as in the schools as a bilingual, you know, interpreter or facilitator for the kids. I would work with the kids and I, because we, we had a big influx of immigrants. Spanish speaking immigrants, so I worked with the families and the kids. And I did that for about three years. And I could have continued, and I could have continued and had, you know, or even going on to, you know, the door was there to become a you know, and that's what a second second language for the second language learners, I could have become a teacher, and have, you know, a real kind of dependable paycheck and retirement plan and all that. But you know I just it just wasn't attractive enough for me. And it was like, No, I really, my path is to work with my hands. I have to do this. You know I just. I didn't see any

Phil Wharton: 26:54

It makes total sense. It makes sense. Because other way. that that's the internal drive, you feel

Cecilia Schiller: 26:59

Yeah

Phil Wharton: 26:59

This joy and this passion that bubbles up even when there's no time, right? You got a one- year old. You're finding these little windows, and they're consistent. You know you're you got going and going and going and all sudden, it's years and years and years, and you're honing this. What about the fall or speed bumps? We talked about one really low moment in Peru but what are some of the lowest moments in your career or life overall, any inciting moments or events there that come up?

Cecilia Schiller: 27:28

Yeah, you know, one thing that comes to mind is, you know, what ended up you know, after the, you know, it was well, after the three years of working in the schools. So when I went to Bali, and I came back, and I really wanted to work with that experience. And I did a number of different things freelancing and some teaching in schools, some you know internships. With, I don't know, just doing residencies in grade schools. I did work in theaters. And then I started to get a kind of a little bit more lucrative job working in as part of a set crew on this was it started out as Dayton's department store. And turned to Marshall Fields and ultimately turned into Macy's. In downtown Minneapolis. But they have this eighth eighth floor auditorium. And they would make this really elaborate this since the 1960s. Since I was a child, you know. They would make this really elaborate Christmas display with about 60 different scenes. And it would take about three or four months to build, you know, with all these different crews. So, um, I was on the set crew, but I would also the prop. Because I have so many different skills.

Phil Wharton: 29:04

Yes

Unknown: 29:05

You know, and I also was a hairdresser and a costumer and stuff. So, you know, the prop shop would borrow me the costume people would borrow me they, you know, they would also have me do care. And I could paint too. So the Paint Crew, they were they were more like now we're taking care of our own stuff. You stay away from here, but I did get my fingers into paint every once and a while. So I and I also when the when the animated figures came in. They would have me tweak them. So that they would work a little more realistically. So you know, but anyway, so I did that for about five years. And then kind of the, the bottom dropped out, you know. It was about 2007 2008 and everything you know, theater stop hiring. Macy's decided they only wanted to do the same show over and over again. So I had no work there. And, and it was, and then I think I was about I was in my early 50s. And I thought to myself, you know, people always think about, you know, oh, when I retire, I'll do the artwork, I really want to do, you know,

Phil Wharton: 30:25

Someday my ship will come in.

Cecilia Schiller: 30:27

Exactly

Phil Wharton: 30:29

Right, right, right.

Cecilia Schiller: 30:30

And I felt like, if you know. If you don't just turn on a dime, and start doing this fabulous artwork. It takes time to develop that. And so I thought, well, if I want to do what I want to do, not someone else's idea. I have to, I have to do it. I have to start doing it now. You know, and understanding too, that, like, I'm not in a position I can retire. So that I'm going to be working until old age. And so I want to do what I want to do. Right. So, um, so I started I got to the studio space I could work in. And I was having a really hard time, you know, because like, I'm making stuff and I'm questioning what I'm making, and I'm spending all this money on the space, the materials and not really any return and what am I doing, you know. I practice Buddhism, and my, I went to my teacher, and it was just an amazing, compassionate, insightful, wise person. And I told him the situation. And he said, he said. Think about generosity. He said, do this as a gift.

Phil Wharton: 32:06

Yes.

Cecilia Schiller: 32:07

Do this, you know, for the world. You know, this is an act of generosity. And, uh, you know, I mean saying it now. I can't feel the same thing that I felt then. But it hit me in, it went right to my heart.

Phil Wharton: 32:24

Yes.

Cecilia Schiller: 32:25

And to like yes. Like, I wasn't doing it out of heart. I was doing it out of what's the return? What's the return, you know, always thinking, like, what's going to come back to me for doing this, you know? And that really changed it. And I went back to the studio, and I just thought, this is a gift, a gift. And it really changed the way I felt about doing the work. And, and I started really, you know, kind of enjoying it started feeling the flow, feeling the intuition. And, and it wasn't. And then I mean, it was probably at that time, too, that this friend of mine, called me and she said, Cecilia, there's an exhibit at the American Swedish Institute. You have to go see it. He's teaching a class, you have to take the class. Do not think about it. Do not pass go. Just go sign up for this class. And I was like, okay, she's a really trusted friend. And I just called and signed up for the class. Sight unseen. And it was a Swedish man who hardly spoke any English. But he was teaching a class of automata. And, okay, okay. And as it happens when I took the class, and we all made the same thing, and there was a. We just were supposed to copy his piece. Okay, and I measured wrong. And I put my two axle holes, just like two millimeters too close together

Phil Wharton: 34:08

for the gears.

Cecilia Schiller: 34:09

The gears yeah. And, and right away, I put the gears together and they they jammed. So I had to shave down that whole one gear all the way around until it would work.

Phil Wharton: 34:23

You adjusted.

Cecilia Schiller: 34:25

Yeah. And then I put on the cam. And it jammed. Because now the axles were too close and the cam was. So I had to shave down the the cam and all the way along the way every single thing. It it was this cascading effect that this one mistake I made cascaded through the entire piece. And I had to adjust every single component. So by the time I was finished, I understood completely how the whole thing works.

Phil Wharton: 34:56

Because you had to by default reverse engineer it. Exactly

Cecilia Schiller: 35:02

Yeah. So you know, I've come to you know, embrace mistakes. Embrace because you learn a lot more from your mistakes than you ever will from your successes. So, yeah. So anyway, that's kind of, and then it's just been kind of go since there then. And I very quickly started getting recognition, getting grants, getting awards. And, you know, it's like, I'm not going to buy the mansion on the hill now, you know. But I feel very comfortable that whatever I make, will sell. And that I can make what I want to make. And there's people that want me to make their ideas too. So you know I have have some commissions in the wings. So yeah so it's I'm I feel like you know I'm 66 years old now. And it's like I've finally it took a long time, but I've found my path and stuck to it. And I feel like I've gotten to a decent place. Now, you know,

Phil Wharton: 36:14

What a beautiful pivot because I love what your teacher said, you know, is he focused on making the gift. Enter that gratitude frequency you know. You just entered a different zone. You stepped out of that fear of generating for the wrong reason, you know. And then you became giving of service. Because when you look at your work now, it makes total sense now. To see all those different experiences that you had, because I'm looking at your work, I'm thinking, wow. This is a Christmas scene. This is the most amazing Christmas scene, you know. That idea of looking at a picture window, and all the stories are coming to life through the gearing, the nuanced movement. And so it makes total sense with mask work and, and theater and puppeteering. Bringing an idea or story to life. And there's so much joy, it gives you so much joy, you smile when you when you look at these things move and you say, Oh, wow, I just want to be in the room with this. I want to feel that. So this makes total sense. If you had the opportunity Cecilia, what would you redo or do differently at this point in your life if anything?

Cecilia Schiller: 37:32

You know that's interesting. I think this is what I say, but I don't know if I would do it. But I think to live a little bit more deliberately. You know, I've been, I've kind of gone whichever way the wind blew. And I can't complain about that, because that led me to where I am.

Phil Wharton: 37:59

Absolutely.

Cecilia Schiller: 38:00

So and I don't have any problem with where I am. But so you know, but in my next life maybe. Just take the lessons I've already learned, and maybe just live a little bit more deliberately so that I can make better use of the things I've learned.

Phil Wharton: 38:20

Yeah, yeah

Cecilia Schiller: 38:21

That's what I think. But who knows?

Phil Wharton: 38:24

That makes sense. But I think all those departures and all those things that you felt like you were off path.

Cecilia Schiller: 38:30

Right

Phil Wharton: 38:31

Your work is so succinct, and it's so magical, but it's also so precise. So all those imprecise decisions sometimes, and being in a creative mind and having to be in the intuit and having to be in the quiet and figure these things out. Not not in an esoteric sense of having too much time where you're able to collapse, but you have to confront this fear here and now. I think was a very powerful stepping stone. Lessons that you you're pulling on every day in every moment in your work.

Cecilia Schiller: 39:05

Yeah Absolutely. On the anvil is we go back, take me to a decision that forged you a defining moment you feel that shaped your destiny. Was it meeting with the teacher in that moment that that feels like a very pivotal moment that took you to automata. Is were there others or something else that stands out for you? You know, I guess in terms of teachers. I've had so many teachers along the way. And I think you know. I don't you know, some people will talk about being self taught, and I think I like half a million teachers. And they come in all forms you know. So it's hard for me to define something like that about my work. One, I guess, you know a defining moment that I have recognized from my past was when I was. When my daughter was just a few months old. And I was I separated from her father, he was very unreliable. And things were very difficult, you know. And I was I had, I had been resourceful enough to find someone that would help me find this little house that I was able, a little one room house. Nice clean little one room house that I could live in. And somebody had somebody had given me a two burner, a two burner, gas thing, but but it was broken. It wasn't great. Right. And otherwise I just had a screw on one to the to the bottle, you know, so it was just one burner, but it wasn't, you know, wasn't very practical and everything. This two burner would be so awesome. And anyway, so there was these two guys that were walking up and down the street and they were fixing ovens and stoves. They were just kind of ambulant fixers, you know? And I saw them I knew what they were doing. And I thought, oh, so I called him in and I said, Hey, could you do you think you could fix this two burner? So it's not working? And and they said, oh yeah we could do that. You know, and so then they started working on it. I started getting really nervous. Because how much is it going to cost? You know, and but I don't want him not to fix it, but I'm going, how much is it going to cost? You know, and I'm getting really nervous, and, you know, all this, and I'm finally they finish and they turn around and they say that'll be five real's Whatever it was and I just went what? No, no way. You know, it's like, I'm a single mom. Her dad doesn't help me. Blah, blah, blah, I can't afford that. And then I said, How about this? How about can you will you take the little little one burner thing. They said no, we don't want that. They I went on so much and they got so disgusted with me that they just went forget it. They walked away. When they did that we're not taking any they didn't want any payment. They just were like, disgusted, they didn't want to deal with me. Bye, you know. I felt so ashamed. I felt you know it's like my victimhood didn't have anything to do with them. They had no obligation to me. I was throwing this in their face, they had to help me because I was a victim. And so, but I had been doing this and other ways and hadn't been seeing it, but this time, was so clear, and so unforgivable. I felt so horrible, that I didn't want to go out on the street again, that because I was afraid I would see them, and they would see me and you know, I was so ashamed. And, I vowed I wasn't going to be a victim anymore. And so that, was a real turning point for me for where I instead of seeing myself as this victim, who you know I like started no you know. This is my life, this is where I am, because this is I got myself here. And I am going to go forward with my head held high. I'm going to take responsibility for my actions. And, that was so powerful, so humiliating, and, and so powerful. And, you know so those two guys were my teachers, you know, they taught me to see this horrible fault I had, you know, and so, you know, that was I think that was one of the major turning points in my life, because I refused to see myself as a victim. After that, you know, or anything.

Phil Wharton: 44:34

What a gift. What a gift. Because it just, I mean, right now you can see, you know, I'm not in the studio, right? So I don't know, but what comes forth is that you're so fierce and fearless with the failure. Because you imagine some of these pieces, some of these larger pieces, all these things, as you said, is a cascade of things that if they're not precise, they're not working and that things not cranking and these beautiful wood is not moving in this marvelous way. The whimsy doesn't come magically, you know, it's hard work. It's magical. But it's, you know, so that what a gift that process that you went through I think.

Cecilia Schiller: 45:21

Yeah, yeah.

Phil Wharton: 45:22

Your journey now Cecilia, what's most important to you? What does the road ahead look like for you? And what's next?

Cecilia Schiller: 45:32

Yeah, well now my daughters are mothers. Their children are the age that they were when I was in South America. I'm kind of reliving a lot of those moments through them. But, you know I'm at a point where my partner and I were going to move to northern Wisconsin, and we've renovated a barn. My studio is in the barn already. And I'm transitioning out of the home that I've had for the last close to 20 years. And so that's, you know, got to downsize a little bit, just don't have enough room. But, so I anticipate my work is going to change somewhat, just because of the influences of the location.

Phil Wharton: 46:24

Yes.

Cecilia Schiller: 46:25

And and also you know I want to be sure to spend time with my grandchildren. You know, I want to, I want my life to include some play time. And, and some cherished together time with the people that I love. And I can get very focused in and, you know just you know on I'm my work, and kind of go overboard sometimes. But I really want to rein it back and find that balance where I work, I have play, I have time for meditation time for reflection, time, time to actually see where that path is going forward. So it'd be open to it. Yeah.

Phil Wharton: 47:11

The Good Life, it that's the good life. I hope so. It just feels right, you know, to have the balance of having a loving partner and then spending time with your grandkids and having that time. Then not pushing, having the work come when it's right, you know, the right type of pace, because.

Cecilia Schiller: 47:32

Right

Phil Wharton: 47:33

You go in that other zone, because there's so much and you're so much in demand now, because of the beautiful work, so you obviously you're gonna get commissions and that could that can be stacked up. So any as we look back, you know, we call it the slipstream in the show any parting gems of advice you'd like to leave for us today on intrinsic drive? Yeah, maybe? Don't fear failure, you know that failure is only word. It's a very valuable tool to help define where what your next step is? Failure is your teacher. And it's to be embraced. Yeah. And you know, I also say, you know, as a professional is only someone who knows how to fix their mistakes. I love it. That's right.

Cecilia Schiller: 48:32

Because you sure make em even if you're a professional.

Phil Wharton: 48:37

The more you really get out there too that you push the envelope of what's possible. And as you're moving into that creative mind. Because it's just you can see the expanse of your creative mind. I just love some of the commissioned work and one that pops up for me. And please do go to the website, when you listen to this podcast. Ceciliaschiller.com, and everything is there and you'll go into commissions. And you'll see Seeking Solace and Inspiration, in the office of Dr. Flowers. I just love that so much happened right? Can you tell us a little bit about that there's happened during the pandemic and there's a concept.

Cecilia Schiller: 49:14

Yeah, yeah. So the, person who commissioned it. He is a therapist himself. He contacted me said, I love your work. I want you to make something for me. I'm a therapist, and I want it to be something about my work, you know. My own daughter is a therapist. And so I called her and I said hon is it do you think there's anything you know, without breaking confidentiality? Is there something in your practice that has happened? That it's kind of comical or something you could tell me about? She thought and she said, No. I was like, oh dear. And yeah, but we continue to talk and then, oh, after a while I said, hey, I just had this thought. What do you think of this? I said, the therapist is sitting there with his patient, a woman who's crying and crying. And, . And he just he after a while he gets up, he goes over, he picks up a watering can. Then he opens her head. He waters her head. Yeah. And then a flower grows out of her head. Yeah. And she said, I love it. So I talked to the therapist, and he was like, Oh, that's so awesome. You said I like to say to my patients, I'm planting seeds.

Phil Wharton: 50:40

Yeah, yeah.

Cecilia Schiller: 50:41

So it really worked for him. And then of course, the first thing I had to do was say, Well, I'm not going to be able to make a person stand up, go over pick up a watering can do all these things.

Phil Wharton: 50:51

Right.

Cecilia Schiller: 50:51

So we have to simplify. Yeah, so and that's how the rest of it evolved yeah.

Phil Wharton: 50:57

I love how the picture opens and then the watering can pours and the head opens. You know her head opens the patient, and then the flower comes up out of the head after the watering has happened. And, Dr. Flowers takes copious notes. He's just sketching.

Cecilia Schiller: 51:17

He's doodling

Phil Wharton: 51:19

Doodling is fabulous. And stylish dresser. Of course, he's really well dressed. But then, you know, he's got he's got the nod, you know, and he's being focused and attentive and taking it all in. And then the leg is just kind of gently kicking there. So there's a lot of nuance there. That's

Cecilia Schiller: 51:37

Yeah Beautifully, and then Il Majo was the 90th birthday for an artist that was commissioned. So beautiful renaissance man. So he's got the cards, and it's just incredible. Right. And every single thing in that in on that piece, you know, from the colors to the individual, you know, iconography and everything. It's all reference to his work or his life. And so that was it was it had a lot of fodder there for yeah. I think we're kind of we're kind of kindred spirits.

Phil Wharton: 52:14

Yes.

Cecilia Schiller: 52:15

So, so that was a really Yeah, yeah.

Phil Wharton: 52:19

Any, any other ones that come to mind when your favorites and working with an idea and working with a client or you know.

Cecilia Schiller: 52:29

Well, the most recent or at least not the most recent. But recently, I finished a piece called puppet master. It's new enough that it's not on my website, but I hope to get it up there soon. And it's kind of autobiographical about my own work as a puppeteer and stuff. And it's a puppeteer with a set. And he's performing for an audience of children. Four children. One is really excited, happy and she's clapping. One is horrified covering your face. Another one is just enchanted and watching. And then of course, there's the precocious one, there's got to mess with the set. And he reaches for the curtain. And the curtain raises and the puppeteer pushes out his foot, and there's a barking dog puppet on his foot. So the dog barks at the little boy, and he pulls back. And then of course, then there's all the, the lower part is all the gears and there's some 37 years to make all this stuff happen. And I felt like there needed to be a little story on the about, you know, in the understory.

Phil Wharton: 53:49

Right

Cecilia Schiller: 53:50

So that it so I made all these other little puppets to be down there. So it's like the puppets are running the whole show. And they're down in the understory. So it's, really and what I'm doing with that one, I'm not putting it in a gallery right away. I made a crate that I my traveling crate and and I just took it this morning to share with a group of people at my QiGong class. I'm just going and kind of having it be a pop up little automata show, you know, and I'm not exactly sure how it's going to evolve but I'm hoping to just share it with people in more intimate settings and and maybe do a PowerPoint presentation on my work conditionally. But so far it's it's been kind of fun just sharing it the small groups.

Phil Wharton: 54:46

That's so great that you can travel with it, that it can be portable, in that way.

Cecilia Schiller: 54:52

Yeah

Phil Wharton: 54:53

I love the kits and I just ordered one today called Oh Deer.

Cecilia Schiller: 54:56

I saw that. Thank you.

Phil Wharton: 54:59

Where the deer is moving and I saw there was a bigger piece that was commissioned, where there was a mom deer, and there was two fawns that were moving at different paces. And then you had the understory gearing sort of that was sort of the grass that they were moving through or things like that, and the landscape. Beautiful. So that's all on the website. Go to Ceciliaschiller.com, it's all there. And then of course, the classes. Is it mostly in August when you do the class up at the North House Folk School?

Cecilia Schiller: 55:29

No, I think I think it'd be doing one in January or February, I can't I can't recall now. But I usually teach there a couple times a year. And now that I have the barn studio, the idea is to have a few small classes in the barn, maybe three or four students at a time. But yeah, so that'll be coming maybe next year, and next summer. So anyway, yeah. And I do have a mailing list. I don't very often send out email. I'm a little bit negligent about that. But if you do sign up for my email list, I will when the time comes, let you know what's up.

Phil Wharton: 56:09

Great. Well, please follow. And for those of you that are on Instagram, I think it's @crankylady2. Is that correct?

Cecilia Schiller: 56:16

Yeah.

Phil Wharton: 56:17

You know, and there's some beautiful images there of Cecilia's work and seeing that in motion, and kind of follow there. But, Cecilia, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us on intrinsic drive. I so look forward to meeting you in person and taking one of your classes.

Cecilia Schiller: 56:34

Oh, that would be awesome. Yeah,I would love that.

Phil Wharton: 56:36

Just your work is so beautiful. And it just needs to get out there to all of us because it gives us joy. So

Cecilia Schiller: 56:42

Well. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure.

Phil Wharton: 56:45

Thanks for being with us. We appreciate you Yeah. opting in subscribing, and reviewing us. For thumbing us up and following us on socials. Liking us. We like you. Drop us a note. Tell us what stories move you for books, videos, resources and more information. Visit us at www.whartonhealth.com/shopwhartonhealth. And be sure to join us for the next episode of intrinsic drive.