Art + Faith: A Theology of Making with Makoto Fujimura

Makoto Fujimura’s home and community were devastated during the terrorist attacks of 9/11, emotional fractures began to surface. He found solace in his art, creating some of his most transformational work. 

From his earliest painting experiences as a child, Mako always sensed a flow of energy transcending space and time; encouraged to pursue his art, he was invited into the prestigious mentorship in the study of Nihonga—an ancient Japanese art utilizing pulverized minerals.  This process pays homage to the traditional Japanese art forms dating back to the 16th century and the use of these silver, metallic, and gold hues are passed down in a lineage from teacher to student. The Nihonga or “slow art” process utilizes precious handmade minerals, paper, and glue and requires time and patience. 

Mako refers to himself as the “little artist” or vessel for the “big artist” -  the creator-  to move through him. In the studio, he writes, meditates, and prays—while layers of natural pulverized paint pigments dry.  This daily practice allows Mako to move further into his “Theology of Making”—acting as a form of devotional liturgy.

This groundbreaking artist is moving his mission through parallel metaphors of kintsugi—ancient Japan’s art of repairing broken pottery mixed with lacquer, powdered gold, silver, or platinum. This celebration of the fissures, scars, and former brokenness—is a framework for his aligned projects of culture restoration and global justice.  

Current projects include www.IAMCULTURECARE.COM, Academy Kintsugi, and Embers International—a foundation co-founded by Hae Jin Shim Fujimura--protecting, restoring, and empowering victims of injustice, exploitation, and human trafficking.  

Mako is a leading contemporary artist whose process-driven refractive “slow art” has been described by David Brooks of New York Times as "a small rebellion against the quickening of time."  His art has been featured widely in galleries and museums around the world and is collected by notable collections including The Museum of Contemporary Art in Tokyo, The Huntington Library, and the Tikotin Museum in Israel.  Mako has published 4 books, including Art+Faith: A Theology of Making (Yale U. Press 2021, Foreword by N.T. Wright), and created an illuminated manuscript of Four Holy Gospels (Crossway 2011) to commemorate the 400-year anniversary of The King James Bible, which was a historic commission.  Mako has also served on the National Council on the Arts as a Presidential appointee and has received four Doctor of Arts Honorary Degrees. We are honored to host Mako on this episode of Intrinsic Drive ®.

 Intrinsic Drive ®  is produced by Ellen Strickler and Phil Wharton and Andrew Hollingworth  is sound editor and engineer.   

Transcript

Phil Wharton: 0:00

A lifetime of training, practice study, hard work, through discipline, some achieve excellence, mastery, fulfillment, self actualization. What can we learn from their beginning discoveries, motivations and falls? How do they dust themselves off and resume their journey? During these interviews, stories and conversations, we reveal their intrinsic drive. Makoto Fujimori's home and community were devastated during the terrorist attacks of 911. Emotional fractures begin to surface, he found solace in his art, creating some of his most transformational work. From his earliest painting experiences as a child, Mako always sensed a flow of energy, transcending space and time, encouraged in his art, he was invited into the prestigious mentorship in the study of Nihonga, an ancient Japanese art utilizing pulverized minerals. These silver metallic and gold hues passed down in a lineage from teacher to student. This process pays homage to the traditional Japanese art forms dating back to the 16th century. Nihonga, or slow art crafted using precious handmade minerals, paper and glue requires patience. Mako refers to himself as the little artist or vessel for the big artist, the creator to move through him. In the studio, he writes, meditates and prays, while layers of natural pulverized paint pigments dry. This daily practice allows Mako to move further into his theology of making, acting as a form of devotional liturgy. This groundbreaking artist is moving his mission to parallel metaphors of Kintsugi, ancient Japan's art of repairing broken pottery mixed with lacquer, powder, gold, silver or platinum, this celebration of the fissures, scars and former brokenness, a framework for his aligned projects of culture restoration and global justice. Current projects include the website, www.Iamculturecare.com, Academy Kintsugi, and Embers International foundation co-founded by Hae Jin Shim Fujimura, protecting, restoring and empowering victims of injustice, exploitation, and human trafficking. Makoto, is a leading contemporary artist whose processed driven refractive slow art has been described by David Brooks of The New York Times as a small rebellion against the quickening of time. His art has been featured widely in galleries and museums around the world, and is collected by notable collections, including the Museum of Contemporary Art in Tokyo, the Huntington Library, and the Tikotin Museum in Israel. Mako has published four books, including Art and Faith, A Theology of Making and creating an illuminated manuscript of four Holy Gospels, to commemorate the four year anniversary of the King James Bible. Mako has also served on the National Council of the Arts as a presidential appointee and is received four Doctor of Arts Honorary Degrees. We are honored to host Mako on this episode of Intrinsic Drive.

Makoto Fujimura: 3:50

Yeah, so genesis of what I do here in the studio as an artist, started very young. As far as I can remember, I was always an artist. And my mother fortunately, was an educator who saw that very early. I have a painting here that she framed and gave it to me for my graduation from University. She said, You know, this is a painting you did when you were three.

Phil Wharton: 4:20

Wow

Makoto Fujimura: 4:21

And obviously not only she kept it and framed, but she saw something in that. I think it was her message to me that I try to steward your gift as much as I can, and encourage that. She certainly is a person that I attribute both of my parents, unlike other asian parents they loved the fact that I was painting, and I was making things and they clearly saw And when did you feel yourself sort of in an ascent? When did something you feel yourself rising in your craft? How old were you from that moment in three, when you first started creating and I think in your book, I was so captivated by the oyster shells, and you were already starting to use these materials. Slow art is such a young age. And so what was an event that made that path clear to you? And So the funny thing is, you look at this painting and the gestures and the colors are exactly what I what I do today, you know, I saw I had this sense of movement and the colors that I use, you know, that would, of course, today I use Nihonga, or Japanese style painting materials used in 16th, 17th century Japan and apply that to my contemporary work. So there are pulverized minerals and beautiful colors, gold and silver, and metallics included. So you know, they're more refined in that sense. But I think I had a sense for how I, could my hands could actually create something that was beautiful and moving. So to answer your question. Every time I paint or make anything I sensed this flow coming through me. I just didn't know where that was coming from, I knew it wasn't mine. I knew it was a gift. But you know, it took me a while to figure out oh, that's that's, you know, the in the biblical language, it is a flow that transcends space and time.

Phil Wharton: 7:40

You felt that timelessness even right away that oh, you mentioned that electrical shot that shock that tingling that we feel when we're in that energetic field of the intuit in creation and, the Holy Spirit moving through you as as the little artist, from the big artist of God, the Creator, I love that paradigm.

Makoto Fujimura: 8:03

Yeah. And I didn't, I thought everybody had this experience. You know, my friends they were like what?, what are you talking about?, you know. I was told to shut up after a while, which was probably not good, because it took me a while to recover that language as normative. So, you know, even writing my recent book, I realized that these are things that I've been thinking about since I was very small.

Phil Wharton: 8:36

Yes. And then in the discovery Mako, what did you learn through experiences and events, and what new things came to light? Who your mentors, coaches and teachers and what seemed to be revealed at that point when you were moving forward?

Makoto Fujimura: 8:52

Yeah, I That's a great question. And you know, Japanese painting history cannot be spoken without having a lineage system or mentoring. And I was very fortunate to have professors here and and then in Japan as a graduate student going through this very prestigious lineage program. I was the first to be admitted into this lineage program, which is a kind of like a doctorate level program, but it's basically based on mentoring. And that not just my main professors, but their associates and assistants, and, you know, younger artists that I really learned a lot from and my peers. I wasn't in the same class with people like Takashi Murakami, who's a brilliant Japanese artist, and you know, Hiroshi Sanju and others who really, you know, each one in different ways, but helped me to discover myself. And when I moved back to New York, I really didn't have too many people who understood my journey, even as a successful artist. And I certainly had a hard time finding anyone who professed their faith in Christ in the art world. But I did have a important artist and critic Robert Kushner, who kind of, you know, he's a critic who wrote about my first show, and I got to know him. And he kind of invited me in to his circles in this very beautiful movement called patterns and declarations movement. And he really appreciated Japanese art. But you know, he was also a father living in New York City. I used to just have tea with him and and learn a lot. And looking back, he was certainly somebody I consider a mentor. Yes, no, it's, it's amazing, almost feels like a The Way of the Samurai, you know, in Zen when you study Zen, you're sort of passing this on from one to the next. And the Nihonga. What in the drives what urged you forward? What were some of the external and internal forces and motivations during that time in Yeah, it was always spending time in the studio. I'm always your life? amazed by even the simplest ways that you mix pigments and you create, basically, I create my my own paint, but in that process, today, it's raining in Princeton, and that changes how the oyster shell will mix, and depending on even the you know, since it's organic materials, every batch is different. So you learn to really you're highly sensitized to individuality, of we even the pigments that come in from my, and there's an ecosystem of Nihonga, there's, you know, brush makers, and pigment shop, you know, folks who craft folks who prepare these materials for me, and over the years, you develop this really beautiful relationship with soap makers and paper makers, and they know you, they know your aesthetic, they want to serve you. So we collaborate, we improvise, you know, so it becomes some ecosystem that is, that is hopefully ideal for you to make your work. And so, you know, behind every pigment, azurite, let's say pulverised azurite, I'm mixing this, and I sense the uniqueness of that, not just that mixture, but but the kind of care that they would have for me behind it. And so, those are things that constantly inspire me even in my darkest days. I, you know my body knows, even if my mind is let's say shut down. I just always felt healing in the studio.

Phil Wharton: 13:32

You know you mentioned that one of your projects. I don't know if it was the the Psalms or which project it was, but you were working, just was it post 911? Or no, during the pandemic maybe. And you were in Pasadena, and there was just so much brokenness, and but all of a sudden, you didn't even realize where you were. You were in that moment, what we call an athletics as a marathoner, the zone, You know where time disappears, and one mile, 10 miles, 20 miles, it's over too soon. And it seemed like, you didn't even know that your body had done all this.

Makoto Fujimura: 14:08

Right.

Phil Wharton: 14:09

Because of all that. Love that. Even though it's so difficult, but it was amazing.

Makoto Fujimura: 14:17

It is like an athlete you know, being trained to do a game and the game comes to you. And then you realize, you know, as much as you prepared for it, the way you're experiencing is beyond what you anybody can control. And but the way you're speaking, it was was coming in my very dark time when I didn't even know if I could get up in the morning and my friend will call me every morning to make sure I got to the studio and when I got there. I remember painting this gigantic triptych, which is 33 feet long painting called Silence and Beauty. My assistant was there, he took some photos. But, three years later I'm standing in the museum where this piece was shown. And I just asked myself, do I remember painting this painting? I had dissociated So much of that trauma, that it kind of reconfigured itself. And I don't remember actually painting it. But it is one of the best paintings I've done, because I am my ego is not there, you know, but what I have known for so many years over, 25, 30 years of experience of my body moving in the studio to create paint and then layering and all of that just happened, almost, you know, without me. And so that means that the outcome of what I created is something that anybody can relate to it is a portal, that people can walk in themselves, especially perhaps in dark moments, and in you know, to find that home language, you know, this beacon that is signaling to you. And you and so, I stood there just mesmerized by my own, you know, creation, but, but I knew I didn't own this. I knew this was not something that I did.

Phil Wharton: 16:41

That's, it's so beautiful, when it becomes not us when the work just takes over.

Makoto Fujimura: 16:49

Yeah, that's right.

Phil Wharton: 16:51

Yeah. And it just takes us on. Like, for me, it's beyond protocol, beyond all the things, you know, and then all of a sudden, your hands are going to the right places. And that's and that I feel is really God's work, for me in my beliefs. In the fall and in speed bumps for you or tell me about the lowest moment in your career or life? Was it this moment, or was there another?

Makoto Fujimura: 17:18

I would say so, you know, I had severe trauma. I am a survivor of 9-11, and I was trapped underneath the towers in a subway and couldn't get out for 45 minutes. But, you know, even that moment, you know, looking back, it was, it was miraculous that I survived. But at the same time, I felt that you know I mean, people died on top of me. But it was, so I felt very fortunate to still be around. And, but then the fractures set in, right and the hairline fractures are first, you don't notice them and that becomes a break and then things begin to fall apart. And, you know, sometimes takes ten years, and even after 20 years of 9-11, I'm still discovering, you know, these things that I didn't really think about and I just saw, Come from Away, the Broadway musical. It was their last show, we were able to catch this my bride and I, and we felt so fortunate, but it was hard because, you know, I just put me right back. And again, like you were saying your body remembers so, so you're like locking up, you know, in this theater and you don't have full control over that. Right. So and yeah, what what happens with art, and especially in this case, the power of theater is that it carries you forward in a strange, mysterious way, that you know, even if I forced myself to go to ground zero. And I spent 10 years of my life after 9-11 raising my children, you know, dealing with the fractures in that space. So I know that space, but you know, for me to go back there. Again, my body kind of reacts in a certain way, but what art can do, you know, going into my studio every day and then and then you know experiencing this amazing musical that speaks of that day. So poignantly, not just what we lost but what we found. You get a sense that you know, first of all you are connected to some larger story that is not just particularized, Ground Zero in New York City, but universal in the world. As we have gone through this pandemic. Now, everybody's a survivor. And there's common ways, and connections that we have with a total stranger in Mozambique, right? That is not, that wasn't there before. And so for us, it is an opportunity to find something new. And, but it's easier said than done, because you have to face our ground zero, you know, in front of us, and you have to go through almost like this, you know, reality of you being pulverized, or being paralyzed by what you're experiencing. And yet the art, has the capacity to create moments of reflection and transcendence. Beauty that carries us, carries us through.

Phil Wharton: 21:10

And I still feel that in the shared suffering, that we're all in, but there's this hope, through that stillness, that stillness of creation, where God comes through and just allows that to happen if you are there with it, and have that, that focus that, but that discipline of showing up and in the morning when it's early, and the temperature, there's all these contingencies and the adjusting and staying with it. Right, that's very beautiful. What was your pivot? I think you've talked about some pivots of, of being in the studio, but what steered you back on course? What turned you around?

Makoto Fujimura: 21:55

Yeah, so I think it's being present in that. And holding that moment, as precious, even though you can't do anything about it, or paralyzed or you feel that trauma, but being able to be present and, of course, having a community that surrounds you. They may not say anything, but they're walking with you. And you know, I'm very fortunate to have met my bride who has also gone through trauma, but has become this agent of reconciliation and activist and advocate for so many things. And, so when I'm journeying with her into the realities of darkness in the world, it is as if we were meant to experience these things in order for us to serve. And, the darkness as real and painful as that may be. That is somehow beyond the veil, or there is this moment where we see at least partially why we had to go through these things to an end. It is ultimately a choice to you know, we do have the choice to escape, run away, try to assuage the trauma. But I, as therapists often says, that's the worst thing you can do. We know trauma will follow you, no matter where you go. So being able to have a community, family partner who can who can journey with you. Is what I think got me through ultimately.

Phil Wharton: 24:09

That's so beautiful, because it's like, going inside deeper, and finding that space, but having that community, just like in the Nihonga community of people that are really caring for you and your art and curating these things over centuries. And that feels like it's very supportive.

Makoto Fujimura: 24:31

And culture should be about absolutely not just individual success, but it's about...

Phil Wharton: 24:37

To unify instead of separate, and that's I think that is what I love about your culture care concept of what you and your bride are bringing forward is this idea of okay, instead of this fix or quick fix society, like the plumbing analogy that you put forth in the book. Yeah, why don't we cultivate the healing waters?

Makoto Fujimura: 24:57

Yes, that's right.

Phil Wharton: 25:01

Really Christ's blood coming through there is really much more powerful. As I've learned as a therapist at first, you know, it's go harder, it's find the fix, but now it's realizing teach them to fish find the process.

Makoto Fujimura: 25:16

Right.

Phil Wharton: 25:17

Be with them in they're suffering in understand the greater construct so, stepping back, on the pressure, It's a paradigm of let go.

Makoto Fujimura: 25:28

Yes. And it's a paradigm of abundance, rather than scarcity.

Phil Wharton: 25:33

That's right.

Makoto Fujimura: 25:34

And, you know, plumbing isn't absolutely necessary.

Phil Wharton: 25:37

Absolutely. Not to knock the profession.

Makoto Fujimura: 25:40

Yeah, totally I've gotten emails from plumbers.

Phil Wharton: 25:45

That's not my intention.

Makoto Fujimura: 25:47

You know, I believe in what you're writing because even as a plumber, you end up just fixing when you can be part of this greater healing process. And, this person said, when my father taught me, this is several generations apparently of plumbers. When you go into people's homes, you pray you ask God, how can I serve this family? You might be doing a mundane fixing, but then there are always opportunities where I discover because he was inside people's homes, how I can better serve this family. And that, to me that, you know, sense of presence in that space is so much about generative practice of, you know, how we can all live our lives. You know, even if your called to repair something.

Phil Wharton: 26:44

Being human, yeah, being human. I love this. And in the rollback, let's say, if you had the opportunity. What would you redo or do differently? If anything?

Makoto Fujimura: 26:57

Yeah, that's probably the hardest question because I have learned to really be present in the fractures and to the day that I can say, all these things, as hard as they were, I am blessed by. And so, if there were things that I could do better is to have more faith in the abundance of God in the world that even if I am facing Ground Zero every morning, and fearful of what tomorrow will bring, I could still rest in that promise and, literally be an ambassador, you know, to. Were there moments when I didn't feel like that? Absolutely, yes. But, you know, the more I realized, looking back, as my bride tells me all the time, you know, there's, you do not need to fear what God's provision is always abundant. And, it's not, like, that's, that's the, you know, that's, that's a faith step to believe that, but the evidence is everywhere. And so I don't need to fall back into my, typical practice of shrinking back and defending myself to, make sure that, I can survive. There's always an opportunity of generosity of blessing others rather than cursing people, but those are real struggles, right that we go through.

Phil Wharton: 28:55

So, yeah, but I love this idea of, I maybe pronouncing it wrong, but the idea of Wabi- Sabi, the poverty and the rust, of an object of passing things through generation, and the object has a resonance from the people that hand it down.

Makoto Fujimura: 29:14

Right, so I speak a lot about Kintsugi. This form of tea tradition from Rikyu, who basically invented wabi-sabi concept. The things that are truly beautiful are really upside down. They don't really, you know, it's not just the appearance and power, that ushers in beauty. But it's something that lacks power. And that's a very refined Japanese concept, and out of Kintsugi that my bride and I have been journeying with to help people understand. Kintsugi takes fractured tables and or anything, and mends them to make new. So it's not just fixing, but you're using Japan lacquer and gold to fill in the gaps in the most beautiful design, extravagant and gratuitous. And the resulting Kintsugi bowl, is more valuable than the original. Because you had the original, you know, ceramics master and Hiroshi master or Japan lacquer master who mended it. So, it's a beautiful metaphor for our lives when we're going through fracture that you know God's gold can be poured into the wounds and fractures and fissures, that we have somehow that is elevated, just like Christ's post resurrection appearances. You know, he did not just come back as a human being but he came back as a wounded human being glorified. And the wounds it is through his wounds that we are healed.

Phil Wharton: 31:10

Yes, and through that pinhole, that lens in John: 11. Through Christ's tears, I think, as you illuminated it in the book is such a powerful window, portal for you and your work, but for all of us in our work.

Makoto Fujimura: 31:27

Yes

Phil Wharton: 31:28

All of us in our work to see this, because it's really that brokenness that actually comes to define us.

Makoto Fujimura: 31:35

Yes

Phil Wharton: 31:36

As adversity, introducing us to ourselves.

Makoto Fujimura: 31:40

Right

Phil Wharton: 31:40

And there's such a beauty in that. And we have to realize that there's a reason why we fall, there's a reason why we fall and that's

Makoto Fujimura: 31:48

Yeah, when I was writing those chapters in my book, I was basically preaching to my own mind. And the Jesus wept passage, would come back to me, going over it, it's about the presence of Christ in suffering. When he had no reason to weep with us, you know, he was about to resurrect Lazarus. So why don't you just go ahead and do the task

Phil Wharton: 32:17

Take the time, take the time with Mary and

Makoto Fujimura: 32:19

Why? Why would he wait, right? waste its time Martha with us when we are broken? And yet that presence of Christ is something that, you know, to me is just so fundamental and central to our faith and what everything that the Bible is talking about, from Genesis to Revelation hinges on that. Is God, such a God that would waste his time with us when we are broken. And so you know, and we are angry, the, you know, the situation and, they asked us, the Bible gives us says yes, and, we can be as well. We don't have to rush after to show power. We can be vulnerable, we shed our tears with those who cannot see, hope. And, that to me, was the greatest gift that I discovered during those times was to be at the end. And here I am, many years later, this book is, a way for that period of time in my life to share something that, you know, people I didn't know the pandemic was coming, but you know, it came out in 2020. So, it was released, right during the time when people needed to hear this message of Christ's presence in darkness and Christ tears, that still fills the air, as you know, rain. When it rains, I always think about Jesus's DNA, you know, like, it's not going to disappear, right? Because it's the Son of God, it will be multiplied like fishes and loaves, and still we breathe Christ's tears as we journey into our lives.

Phil Wharton: 34:28

I feel that too. And I was thinking of you so much this morning in my run when the rain was just falling on me in the Path Valley here and you're just looking up at the mountains and seeing God's beauty. This is the creation of being able to feel that gift and in your journey, what's most important to you now? What does the road ahead look like for you? And what's next?

Makoto Fujimura: 34:55

Yeah, so, you know, I mean, that's this Rain comes from the same storm that destroyed Florida. You know, every thing that we are blessed by, there's a counterpart of suffering. And so my bride and I have been journeying into places like Mumbai and Dominican Republic and other places, for her as an attorney is to rescue people literally out of darkness. But for us together, we want to try to merge beauty and justice. And to, understand that when people are rescued, you know, the recent number is 50 million people in human trafficking, they're enslaved. That's more than the population in Canada and Sweden combined. I mean, that's a generational legacy that we left, so not only can we have that reality that we're facing, but you know, there's something that is so far beyond our capacity to fix. And yet, it's right in front of us. That is every small decision we make to be compassionate to others to give grace, but also to empower those who are powerless results in generational change. So, these girls that we rescue from the brothels in Mumbai and the children are going to one by one, change the red light district into you know, something new, something more, you know, abundant and safe. So, one by one you know, we have to do a task, and I'm really blessed to be able to journey into that darkness together and to contribute to something that, I never thought that I will be able to partake in. Which is a journey into India and other places she has taken me to so so I'm really looking forward to what you know, we there's a film crew that been following me around for the last seven years, and so I took them with me and documented some of these things as much as we can and so my art has become more aligned with her work of seeking justice in the world, and her work of seeking justice in the world that has become more aligned to creation of beauty and reminding people the abundance creating a portal for that so that's basically our future and the new creation is our future as well.

Phil Wharton: 38:11

Can we find more information about this on www.Iamculturecare.com or is that her website we'll drop that in the liner notes.

Makoto Fujimura: 38:20

Embers International.

Phil Wharton: 38:22

Embers International, okay

Makoto Fujimura: 38:24

And we can certaintly, perhaps you can interview her as well

Phil Wharton: 38:29

Absolutely, We'd love to champion those causes.

Makoto Fujimura: 38:32

So much there that is profound in terms of how we can after the pandemic, you know, maybe the endemic we we we enter into a new era new season, it's not going to go back to normal. So what do we do right? In our capacity that has been changed forever and, I really think that this is a time just like when what the Black Plague did in Europe. That Renaissance was ushered into a new era that dark times can usher in, and we have the opportunity to shape the future as human beings that's uniquely gifted species that we have the capacity to go through something like this and and bring something new, new creation into the world.

Phil Wharton: 39:26

It feels like a bigger Kintsugi. You know to me, that's like a bigger Kintsugi, of fixing of healing the broken pieces moving away from the perfectionism but doing God's work.

Makoto Fujimura: 39:38

Yes

Phil Wharton: 39:38

Doing God's work. As your work comes into prominence as people can. What you said is the slow time slow art, David Brooks said it's teaching them even just in that pause, to realize themselves and realize that okay, there is hope.

Makoto Fujimura: 39:56

Yes,

Phil Wharton: 39:57

But I love this that you're coming into a Greater construct, of reaching out and helping these people in such profound ways.

Makoto Fujimura: 40:05

Kintsugi generation. Yeah,

Phil Wharton: 40:07

yeah,

Makoto Fujimura: 40:07

That's already at hand. And you and I, you know, can bring, facilitate that healing with the world and especially in younger generation.

Phil Wharton: 40:19

That's right. When I shared your book with the university athletes last week, they were so touched by it really resonated with them, that a lot of them are in pain post pandemic, and there's so much mental health issues and so much messaging online, it's still in that perfection and polarization. And so they saw Wow, here's a way forward through the art. Yeah, to connect with something greater.

Makoto Fujimura: 40:47

That would be really fascinating to have athletes to consider to be perfectionist and

Phil Wharton: 40:54

Right

Makoto Fujimura: 40:54

Each person is supposed to go into converge into this perfection, profected state. But really, when you understand athletes, they all different, right? They all have different titles. So it's the coach's job to find and collect those and pull it together. But we don't have a concept for this, because concept is, very much driven by this idea of perfection. What if Kintsugi can be a way to look at team building and our own recovery process from injuries and, and all of that is, I think, very exciting.

Phil Wharton: 41:34

It's very exciting. And I'm already seeing so many of the applications as we talk about the competere the basis of competition as we strive together as one of the connotations of that in the French word. So it's really fascinating how all these when I was reading your book, I was like, wow, I've been living this, you know, to have someone voice that for me and for people that I influenced and I'm influenced by is that community, is so healing in this world of polarization. In the slipstream, as we look back into your life, sort of in the rearview mirror, any parting gems of advice you'd like to leave for us today?

Makoto Fujimura: 42:14

Well, I would tell my younger self, to trust my intuition and have faith. And, do not fear taking risks and failures. Because I, looking back, you hold so much fear in yourself in the future, and we've been taught that. In schools and in media. And, of course, the world is not, safest place but at the same time, facing Ground Zero every day for ten years after 9-11. I have realized that, unless I have faith to stand on the ashes of Ground Zero literally and, move in to that fracture and pain and work with my community to not only rebuild, but to see the beauty the temple, right, the Psalm 27, as I am moving into that darkness that seems like a heroic thing to do but actually it's the only way. Yeah because the other way, and I've also

Phil Wharton: 43:39

It's the only way. experienced this and I've seen others try to move away and ignore. That path is just treacherous you lose yourself in that, you lose your community, you lose almost the reason for existing in and then when you realize your trauma is connected to others going through that and you can intentionally move into that space with tears of Christ, you know, with compassion with understanding that you cannot fix this you know, that's why we're so fearful because we end up in this impossible situation. But at the same time maybe that's the lesson that we can pass on to the next generation. Do not fear moving into that space because that's when new creation will happen. Not just for you, but for the world. Reminds me of that great, one of my favorite filmmakers Kurosawa.

Makoto Fujimura: 44:51

Yes

Phil Wharton: 44:52

Dreams you remember, Dreams? Right there at the top of the mountain and you know, and all the fog moved in. They didn't realize they were at the top.

Makoto Fujimura: 45:01

Yes, that's right. Yeah, that's a great example. Yeah. Japanese aesthetic there.

Phil Wharton: 45:08

Yeah, yeah, the motif that he moves through I love that. And I experienced that when I was in Tokyo, teaching and meeting master Takeuchi, and we went to meet with him. And at first my father and I were asked to wait in Yoyogi Station.

Makoto Fujimura: 45:25

Oh yeah.

Phil Wharton: 45:26

And if your energy is right, you can come in the dojo to meet master Takeuchi, and share your work with him. We wanted to share our work, and so we waited for like five minutes. And then someone came and got us. And then the day was spent and was like, int the "no time". And at the end, we're just, he's playing a flute, and we're drinking lung tea. He said our energy is just going out through the universe. And it was, we spent the next three days with him. And he, he realized that you guys taught me something he said was so interesting, I'm so interested in fixing because his level of diagnostic and treatment for cancer and things were so gotten so advanced, that he had forgotten about teaching them to fish, about teaching them the simple self care. So we had this amazing exchange with him. And that reminds me now being with you, and then the Nihonga, and all those years and years, and centuries of, of that knowledge being passed and coming through you and you moving it also into a world change, not just staying in one. But you know, as the black gesso goes on the painting I'm visualizing, and then the refracted light, like the stained glass prisms is coming out of those layers. But we have to take the time to be there with it.

Makoto Fujimura: 46:49

Yeah, because our senses know, those layers, you know, I have a painting here that has, how about 150 layers of pulverized azurite, and it's just this grey painting. But you sit in front of it your eyes, actually see it, then all sorts of things start to happen, not just with vision, but with somatically all of the body. And so it's somewhat, you know, mysterious, but it is something that all of us can experience, whether it be taste, hearing, or touch. And we're entering a time when it's almost like ground zero time, when we really have to understand that part of ourselves better, because otherwise, we will not be able to cope with with the reality that that's in front of us. And, you know, maybe we had a choice not to ignore that, you know, ignore that and to, you know, just just be numbed by pain or to, do things that will make us forget, but I don't think we can, and certainly the younger generation is sensing that they can't. And so we, people who have experienced that ourselves, we need to lead the way to facilitate the way for that Kintsugi generation to really embrace this idea that we can see the world. And we can, you know, feel that by touch and somatic realities of, you know, our bodies that there is there's a way for us to, be raised in that sense. To understand that body itself carries the DNA of the new creation already. And whether you're religious or not, it doesn't matter that all of us are called into that.

Phil Wharton: 48:54

It's not about it's not about the dogma, as you said, it's, about the God is love, frequency. That frequency that's coming from the heart, is such a powerful resonance that can heal. That's what God wants us to do. I'm with you. I'm with you in your, in your quest, in your mission. And It's been such a privilege and a pleasure to be with you today.

Makoto Fujimura: 49:19

Thank you so much.

Phil Wharton: 49:20

I thank you for coming to Intrinsic Drive. And please go out and get the book that I'm holding up now that you

can't see but the Art and Faith: 49:26

A Theology of Making, It's such a beautiful entry into the world of Makoto and thank you for coming.

Makoto Fujimura: 49:37

Thank you. Let me know how we can serve you and your people.

Phil Wharton: 49:40

I Will. Thanks for being with us. We appreciate you opting in subscribing, and reviewing us, for thumbing us up and following us on socials. Liking us. We like you. Drop us a note. Tell us what stories move you for books, videos, resources and more information, visit us at www.whartonhealth.com/shopwhartonhealth. Be sure to join us for the next episode of Intrinsic Drive.